Thursday, January 15, 2009

Two state solution, or....

A single state democratic solution

(Hat tip: Anthony)

4 comments:

The Plump said...

The real give away is when he writes:

Israelis should reflect upon the experience of white South Africans. The transformation of South Africa's racial-supremacist ideology and state system into a truly democratic one has liberated white South Africans, as well as black South Africans

Yep, it is the old Israel/Apartheid false analogy. A single democratic state would mean the end of the State of Israel and of Jewish self-determination. In a short time the Jews would be a precarious minority in a hostile country.

Democracy as a form of governance relies on both rules of inclusive citizenship and territorial limits. Israel IS a democracy within any meaningful sense of the term. The self determination of both peoples can only be achieved through two states, both democratic and both with agreed borders.

ivan007 said...

I'm a fan of a single state solution. As The Plump helpfully points out, the current state of Israel is designed to only benefit one racial group. That's never going to be a long term basis for a state and can only be defended by endles recourse to arms and repression, as we are seeing. Saying the Jewish part of a population would be a precarious minority in a hostile country sort of assumes that the constitutional settlement woule be really weedy, ut a strong settlement could be worked out and guaranteed. We effectively have a single state at present, but the Palestinians don't get to vote in most of it.

stephen said...

Yep, it is the old Israel/Apartheid false analogy. A single democratic state would mean the end of the State of Israel and of Jewish self-determination. In a short time the Jews would be a precarious minority in a hostile country

Your comment strengthens the analogy with Apartheid, as that was the excuse that white Afrikaaners used to resist black majority rule.

The Plump said...

Ivan, I do not say that the current state of Israel is designed to only benefit one racial group. Non-Jews and Arab Israelis are full citizens of the state of Israel (unlike apartheid South Africa). All states are set up to benefit their citizens. That is what they do. It is called national self-determination.

The one-state solution means the end of Jewish national self-determination and thus the end of the State of Israel. The only way this can come about is war and the defeat of Israel. It is not a policy for peace or a settlement.

A two-state solution is not only possible, but is on the table, and it allows for the national-self determination of both peoples.

Stephen, I cannot see how the fear of a loss of sovereignty by a people who have been the longest standing victims of murderous racism in anyway strengthens an analogy with a totally different historical reality. Analogy anyway is one of the worst and sloppiest forms of argument.